Just Joined

[greasepugfixer]

  Just joined.  We have bought Daniels 205 GTI 1.9.  It has the fast frogs web site on it and may have been raced at some point as it has an oil catcher on in.  Met Grey with sunroof.  Was Jap inport but someone has spent time and effort fitting the rear disks and a 130 hp motor.  Runs extremely well except for that common idle issue.  I have improved it by cleaning the air intake body with carb cleaner.  Any further tips appreciated.  Look forward to discussing topics with you all.  Richard

Previous French cars owned

1970 Citroen DSpecial
1971 Citroen DS
1974 Citroen D Super 5
1989 BX GTI 16 Valve

BTW the Pug is officially Mel's

[greasepugfixer]

Just changed the distributor cap which was cracked and has made mild improvement to running. The  air intake throttle body is a Solex and has the numbers 58:91 stamped on it.  I have spoken to a local Pug wrecker on the phone who advised the ones he has are Bosch and square at one end and have the sensor visible hanging down inside?  Mine doesn't have this and I wonder if the sensor may be missing.  Any help or suggestions on this one appreciated.  Cheers  Richard

[Biff Tannen]

hi richard welcome along enjoy the banter sorry cant help with your issues but someone on here can p.s nice car

[CaM]

gidday mate, welcome along.
as for the throttle body: all the 205gti ones i've ever seen are round, held onto the inlet manifold by 3 studs, and don't have any sensors. some have a solenoid on them to increase the idle for use with air conditioning.

in my experience (I bought a car that wouldn't idle, and had quite a lot of money spent at a peugeot specialist, to no avail, before I purchased it) the idle port on the throttle body is often gummed up with residue from the breather system. I removed the throttle body and cleaned it throughly with carb cleaner. check the TPS setting at this time as it's tricky to adjust when on the car (see further down the page on the method for this).
ideally you want the butterfly completely closed at idle, and the engine only sucking air through the idle port, which has a needle type screw to control the size of it's opening.

in regard to the SAD (supplmentary air device), I never replaced mine. their operation is such, that, when they fail they tend to either stick shut, or stick partially open. the former causes poor running when cold (the ecu enriches the mixture until a certain temperature and if the SAD dosn't open and let a little more air in to compensate, the idle will not increase, thus giving a poor, lumpy idle (if any). once the car is warm this shouldn't matter though. the latter: stuck open, will just cause a high idle when hot. you can test this by, when the car is idling, squeezing the pipe on the intake duct between the air flow meter and the throttle body which heads off down toward the back of the engine (this is where the SAD is located) if the idle drops, the SAD is still open.

next thing to check in the TPS (throttle position sensor) mounted on the throttle spindle on the throttle body. when you return the throttle to idle position, you should hear a small metallic click. this is the TPS returning to it's setting which tells the ECU that the throttle is closed.

next up: vaccuum leaks. make sure that oil catch can isn't vented to atmosphere if there's still breather pipes hooked to the intake system. if not, jsut make sure all the big rubber ducts are in good nick.

if all else fails here (it made it almost 100% for my car) then maybe look at popping the lid off the AFM (air flow meter) and cleaning the tracks. the carbon points can often leave a mark which hinders their conductive properties.

lastly: if you can get your car idling below 1200rpm you're doing better than most people on here. the camshaft fitted to these engines is a reasonably aggressive one which i believe causes usually minor idiosyncrasies in the injetion system to be amplified, almost always resulting in poor idling. even after all the parts on my car were cleaned, adjust, and taken back to top notch, I could only get my car idling as low a 13-1500rpm when hot, and it was a bit of a pig when cold. you'll likely enjoy the car so much that it wont bother you so much, though



also: any pics of the old d series cars you used to own? I'm a bit of a fan

[cammmy]

Welcome along!

[Pee Dubbaya]

Bonjour Richard (and Mel). You're guaranteed to love the Pug & always try to drive it- for short trips that is!!! Where is local for you?
CaM pretty much said it all in regards to idling!

[MescaL]

After cleaning the throttle body, fixing intake vacuum leak, brake booster vacuum leak, replacing O2 sensor, cleaning AFM, adjusting idle screw and the other small screw behind it (throttle position/air mixture?) I finally got my old 205 GTi to idle at 800-1000rpm (a little lumpily, but i liked it) hot or cold without ever stalling. My new one had problems starting, nearly stalls (smells like its running rich), increases its idle to 1500rpm, then goes down to 1000rpm when warm, and back up to 1300rpm when hot. Would that be SAD problem? Should try all my previous steps plus testing the SAD.

[far4ngn]

Welcome

[Bennny]

Little late but welcome along mate.

[greasepugfixer]

[Dear CAM

Thanks for the very thorough response. I haven't been on hear for ages and googled the suggestions you have made. I'm going to print your response off for future reference because it is so well written. Thanks.

I filled the throttle body off and cleaned, replaced plugs, replace dizzy cap, and removed oil collection tank. This got the car running much better and idled at 1000 to 1100 when hot. Cold idle still no good.  We lived with for 8 months or so until starter failed.  Mechanic reconditioned and in process tightened up all hoses. Runs near perfect. Slightly fast at 1100 when hot.

Have since had sets upholstered, new cvs and side door seal to stop the swimming pool effect.

Car great fun to drive now.  Getting paint touch up at Christmas.

Looking for a spare 15 speed line in mint condition, a good coil (ours works but is rusty) and a rear shelf connection to hatch if anyone has these be appreciative. Not sure f I can pot contact details and can't yet access classified column due to posts required.

I'll post some pictures of my d's soon. My d super 5 has recently sold for restoration. I just missed out.

Cheers

GPF









quote author=CaM link=topic=7349.msg99208#msg99208 date=1321163335]
gidday mate, welcome along.
as for the throttle body: all the 205gti ones i've ever seen are round, held onto the inlet manifold by 3 studs, and don't have any sensors. some have a solenoid on them to increase the idle for use with air conditioning.

in my experience (I bought a car that wouldn't idle, and had quite a lot of money spent at a peugeot specialist, to no avail, before I purchased it) the idle port on the throttle body is often gummed up with residue from the breather system. I removed the throttle body and cleaned it throughly with carb cleaner. check the TPS setting at this time as it's tricky to adjust when on the car (see further down the page on the method for this).
ideally you want the butterfly completely closed at idle, and the engine only sucking air through the idle port, which has a needle type screw to control the size of it's opening.

in regard to the SAD (supplmentary air device), I never replaced mine. their operation is such, that, when they fail they tend to either stick shut, or stick partially open. the former causes poor running when cold (the ecu enriches the mixture until a certain temperature and if the SAD dosn't open and let a little more air in to compensate, the idle will not increase, thus giving a poor, lumpy idle (if any). once the car is warm this shouldn't matter though. the latter: stuck open, will just cause a high idle when hot. you can test this by, when the car is idling, squeezing the pipe on the intake duct between the air flow meter and the throttle body which heads off down toward the back of the engine (this is where the SAD is located) if the idle drops, the SAD is still open.

next thing to check in the TPS (throttle position sensor) mounted on the throttle spindle on the throttle body. when you return the throttle to idle position, you should hear a small metallic click. this is the TPS returning to it's setting which tells the ECU that the throttle is closed.

next up: vaccuum leaks. make sure that oil catch can isn't vented to atmosphere if there's still breather pipes hooked to the intake system. if not, jsut make sure all the big rubber ducts are in good nick.

if all else fails here (it made it almost 100% for my car) then maybe look at popping the lid off the AFM (air flow meter) and cleaning the tracks. the carbon points can often leave a mark which hinders their conductive properties.

lastly: if you can get your car idling below 1200rpm you're doing better than most people on here. the camshaft fitted to these engines is a reasonably aggressive one which i believe causes usually minor idiosyncrasies in the injetion system to be amplified, almost always resulting in poor idling. even after all the parts on my car were cleaned, adjust, and taken back to top notch, I could only get my car idling as low a 13-1500rpm when hot, and it was a bit of a pig when cold. you'll likely enjoy the car so much that it wont bother you so much, though



also: any pics of the old d series cars you used to own? I'm a bit of a fan
[/quote]

[greasepugfixer]

Cheers Cam has created a great summary doc that should probably be saved somewhere for other users.

[greasepugfixer]

We up here in tauranga.  We race around welcome bay . Where r ?

Bonjour Richard (and Mel). You're guaranteed to love the Pug & always try to drive it- for short trips that is!!! Where is local for you?
CaM pretty much said it all in regards to idling!

[greasepugfixer]

I'd start by turning throttle body idle screw down first so cold idle is 1000. Then do all you mentioned, plugs, dizzy cap.  There seems to be no one thing. More an accumulation of factors. Most these parts are cheap and you can do them me by one to eliminate cheers Richard


uote author=MescaL link=topic=7349.msg99280#msg99280 date=1321309456]
After cleaning the throttle body, fixing intake vacuum leak, brake booster vacuum leak, replacing O2 sensor, cleaning AFM, adjusting idle screw and the other small screw behind it (throttle position/air mixture?) I finally got my old 205 GTi to idle at 800-1000rpm (a little lumpily, but i liked it) hot or cold without ever stalling. My new one had problems starting, nearly stalls (smells like its running rich), increases its idle to 1500rpm, then goes down to 1000rpm when warm, and back up to 1300rpm when hot. Would that be SAD problem? Should try all my previous steps plus testing the SAD.
[/quote]